Podcast: Powering inequity: Lithium mining’s impacts on Indigenous communities and ecosystems in the Andes

00:00 – 00:44  

Welcome to Stockholm Environment Institute’s Power in Balance: Conversations on Sustainability and Justice where we explore how power imbalances create and sustain social and environmental inequalities in the light of intensifying environmental, biodiversity, and climate challenges. 

In each episode we will analyse what affects people’s access to resources and vulnerability to climate change. What can we do to tip the scales for a more balanced, just and sustainable transition? 

00:46 – 00:52 

Rajesh: Thank you Laura Forni for joining us in this SEI series on gender equality and social inclusion. 

00:53 – 01:04 

Laura: Thank you Rajesh. I’m happy to be here and I’m happy to discuss the work that my colleagues and I did on this intersection of GESI and energy transition. 

01:05 – 01:21 

Rajesh: Excellent. In this episode, we are aware of your experience in working with local communities and upholding justice, and we are interested in exploring solutions in a particular case: making lithium mining equitable and sustainable. 

01:22 – 01:32 

Rajesh: Laura, before we start off, tell us your own experience working with indigenous communities. Understand you have a long history of working with local communities and indigenous knowledge. 

01:33 – 02:01 

Laura: I had the privilege to connect with many actors and stakeholders in various parts of the world and in the context of indigenous communities I have worked with partners. that I think that’s a key aspect of working with communities, working with local partners that are engaged and connected and have the trust of the communities and that collaboration is key for meaningful engagement. 

02:02 – 02:24 

Laura: And in Bolivia, in the watershed of the Tupiza River, as well as Choqueyapy and Pampahuari, we worked with various communities and indigenous communities. And then in Colombia, in the watershed of Campolegre, we not only work with small coffee growers, but also indigenous communities in that context.  

02:25 – 02:53 

Laura: In California, we engaged with representatives from indigenous communities to understand how remote sensing can respond to the needs of the tribes here in California. So it is I think a passion of mine as we do the water work to connect with the social dimensions around water, in particular with marginalized and an indigenous communities in particular. 

02:54 – 03:05 

Rajesh: Could you give us a bit of an overview of the main social impacts using your own experiences of lithium mining, especially in terms of water availability and biodiversity in mining areas? 

03:06 – 03:29 

Laura: So before we start to understand the social impacts, I believe we need to understand or kind of discuss a little bit about environmental impacts as first. So indigenous communities in Argentina, particularly in the northwest region have lived and interacted with the surrounding ecosystems for thousands of years and these ecosystems are part of the traditional livelihoods. 

03:30 – 04:12 

Laura: Particularly in this case, the activities or harvesting and trading salt which they back to pre-Colombian times and as well as the rich cultural and spiritual significance that the land and the ecosystem have. The reason why we’re talking about this in the context of energy transitions is because of lithium mining, which started in the 1990s in Argentina, particularly in the province of Catamarca and moved to other provinces as well after that These lithium extraction occurs in the Indian salt flats and that’s where the indigenous and the local communities live and where we worked in collaboration. 

04:13 – 04:43 

Laura: And why there’s all this boom right of lithium extraction? And it is because it’s considered one of the critical minerals, which means they play a key role in the transition to renewable energy. Lithium is a key mineral for electric car batteries and other batteries as well. Lithium comes from the groundwater, so it’s underneath the salt land and this region in Argentina, Chile and Bolivia is considered as [the] lithium triangle. 

04:44 – 05:07 

Laura: Most common methods that we see today to get the lithium out of the groundwater use evaporation of that groundwater. This is done by extracting large amounts of water from aquifers from groundwater and locating that in the surface and distributed in large, shallow ponds. This way, the water evaporates and leaves behind the lithium. 

05:08 – 05:35 

Laura: One important aspect of lithium mining is the transformation that can cause in these natural areas, and this is not only because of the large amount of water that is extracted in an arid region. But also there’s the global climate change models showing trends of increased water scarcity in this region. Water, as in many regions around the world, is a vital resource for ecosystems. 

05:36 – 05:52 

Laura: For this case in particularly, what is locally called Vegas which are high altitude wetlands, and they’re characterized by the vegetation and they are key for water retention. So these [wetlands] are of ecological importance for storing and regulating water. 

05:53 – 06:17 

Laura: All this pumping that is happening for the lithium extraction causes ecological changes and without any proper examination of the impacts and what that means in terms of water recharge and pumping. There’s a potential risk of degradation of these ecosystems or the biodiversity, and also affecting the way of life of the indigenous and the local communities. 

06:18 – 06:50 

Laura: This is also something that we need to remember that communities again have historically relied on these natural ecosystems for their livelihoods, and they have historically also been excluded in decision-making processes. So our study tries to illuminate these challenges and on the biophysical and the social and emphasize also the importance of meaningful consultation and inclusion of marginalized communities. 

06:51 – 07:16 

Rajesh: Excellent. That sets us up nicely for the next question because you have talked of impacts on local communities and especially indigenous communities. And when we look at impacts, of course, we need to figure out what their concerns are and what they’re saying. So can you tell us a little bit about your study approaches? How do you incorporate local indigenous knowledge about, for example, environmental and social impacts faced by local communities? 

07:17 – 07:35 

Laura: The approach that we use in this work with the communities that I’m sharing about in Argentina, lithium extraction is part of bigger project. We did have a meta-synthesis review at the global level looking at the impact of critical mineral extraction and marginalized communities. 

07:36 – 08:00 

Laura: And then we had a case study, which is the one that I’m sharing today. And for the case study, the approach that we use is first working with local partners that as I mentioned, that’s key for engaging with communities. We visited the lithium extraction areas and the salt lands. It’s a beautiful landscape, by the way, if anybody wants to visit. 

08:01 – 08:28 

Laura: Then before we started the interviews, we asked permission for those interviews, and then we did a review of the local literature in Spanish and including academic literature, and then reviewing some of the reports, but mainly academic literature on the impacts of lithium extraction on the environment and then the social implications for the communities as well as economic and governance implications. 

08:29 – 09:04 

Laura: And from that, we have a list of the impacts that are addressed in the literature and we use that to structure the interviews with the community so then we were able to compare. We were able to identify some of the things that the communities are identifying or perceiving that the literature is not, for example, the impacts on education, higher education, particularly for young adults that they decide to work on the mine and not continue with their education. 

09:05 – 09:21 

Laura: The impacts on livelihoods on the local economy on freshwater availability, that was actually something that the literature did mention also the degradation of the roads and the areas around in the communities. 

09:22 – 09:40 

Rajesh: Excellent. And that gives me a nice segway into my next question. How is knowledge accounted for? In this sense, we’re also looking for your own perspective on feminist critique of science maybe on epistemic justice more broadly, because these are themes that we are exploring in this podcast series. 

09:41 – 10:12 

Laura: I mean there is a long history of exclusion, exploitation, where indigenous rights to land and water are sidelined. As we  know, when we look at the impacts on communities, we need to include an intersectionality approach and how that affects women within those communities and particularly the communities that depend on these ecosystems and wetlands for centuries. 

10:13 – 10:31 

Laura: When we visited there, we were able to talk with a woman that works at the extraction of salt and they supply salt for domestic use and consumption. There’s also these art touristic areas I can mention, a beautiful place to visit. 

10:32 – 10:56 

Laura: And there are women selling clothing made with Alpaca and Vicuna, local fauna and animals in the regions. There’s a whole tradition and livelihoods and perspective from the communities and also for the traditional activities that women engage in and that are impacted by this transformation as well. 

10:57 – 11:20 

Laura: There’s great deal of knowledge that is transferred through generations and history in that knowledge that we all need to learn from as well. So this escalation of the demand for lithium, that is happening that is threatening ecosystems and people’s livelihoods and this rich cultural heritage of the indigenous peoples. 

11:21 – 11:47 

Laura: It needs to be addressed and considered in a sort of that lens of intersectionality. This is something that we haven’t really included in the analysis by my experience with other contexts. When we have mining particularly like I remember in the work we did in Bolivia, the small-scale mining. Men go to the mines and women are the ones staying at home and work in the farms.  

11:48 – 12:18 

Laura: There is an impact on the family, on the household and that is also something to consider when we think about the transformation that is happening and in terms of the future and what that means for the next generations and the culture that could be lost from that transformation. So I think that there’s a challenge here in terms of the policies that they need to integrate this knowledge with an intersectionality lens and participation. 

12:19 – 12:38 

Rajesh: You’re also talking of how you are interviewing people and those are affected, especially women. So Laura, if you were to look back and reflect on some of the work you did, especially with interviews of Indigenous people, what would you think you would do better? For example, in what you say as the nature and production of this knowledge, what could be improved? 

12:39 – 12:58 

Laura: We always wish for more time and more funds. We always want to do more right. When we did the interview, I wish we were able to include more communities and being able to talk more with the women in the region to get different perspectives. 

12:59 – 13:15 

Laura: We did talk to women and men. The results are not reported by gender and yes, so there’s always the constraint of time, right? We have to be respectful of the time of the community. I wish I had the time to interact and spend more time with them. 

13:16 – 13:57 

Laura: One of the key messages from this work is the lack of data and information. This connection of the social and environmental in every place and context and watershed that exists. If we want to address the social impacts I can mention in the beginning, we need to understand the environmental implications and I wish we could have more time and funding to really look at the impacts on water like the extraction of groundwater. What is the recharge [rate]? What is the climate saying? [How is the climate? And how are the trends changing?]  What is the precipitation? 

13:58 – 14:18 

Laura: That’s our expertise to model watersheds and understand the biophysical components and I would love to do that then linked with indigenous communities and being able to represent that indigenous knowledge in the model. That’s my dream to be able to do that one day. 

14:19 – 14:24 

Rajesh: Laura, you’ll have now mentioned twice about the beautiful landscape. Tell us a little bit about why this is beautiful.  

14:25 – 15:01 

Laura: Well versus about like 4000 meters in the mountains in the Andean landscape. They are arid mountains and again with the Vegas, which is like patches of green so there’s vicunas, alpacas and llamas. It’s high in the mountains and they are very colorful. They have like shades of red and brown and they’re just lovely mountains to go and see. And then you visit the different communities or the different cities as you go up 4000 meters [above sea level]. 

15:02 – 15:15 

Laura: They have beautiful houses, shops and restaurants. It’s a great place to visit and to familiarize [oneself] with the natural landscape in particular. 

15:16 – 15:30 

Rajesh: Thanks for doing that. So you have talked of histories of exploitation and indigenous rights to land and water having been sidelined. Laura, you mentioned about a certain treaty which provides a framework for integrating indigenous perspectives. Can you tell us a little bit about that? 

15:31 – 16:06 

Laura: Of course. So locally there is a framework is called Kachi Yupi. It’s a treaty that ensures free, prior and informed consent [but] also focuses on equitable benefit sharing when it comes to mining. Kachi Yupi was established in 2015 and it was done by the indigenous communities in this region in particular. It also includes the advocate for sustainable use of natural resources, the ecosystem services of salt flats and the high altitude of wetlands. 

16:07 – 16:28 

Laura: It has another section where it touches upon the cultural and sovereignty rights by reinforcing indigenous people autonomy in decision-making, in particular around issues on land and the traditional governance system of the indigenous communities. 

16:29 – 17:12 

Laura: So this is a treaty that aligns with international frameworks like the UN Declaration of Rights of Indigenous Peoples. And I think it plays a vital role in terms of informing policies about resources, resource use, governance, and indigenous participation in the region. I think that is a great tool that it was designed by the indigenous communities and one of the goals or things that I would love to see is how we could include as part of the work that we did on connecting the perspective from indigenous communities into indicators. 

17:13 – 17:27 

Laura: So that is something also going back to your question about what I would love to see or I would like to do is to include indicators of technical quantitative components to the Kachi Yupi treaty to address the environmental implications. 

17:28 – 17:38 

Rajesh: This might be very enlightening for our listeners. Laura, can you give us, like, one example of such an indicator that you think it can be connected to the perspective of the indigenous communities? 

17:39 – 18:15 

Laura: Yes, for example, I mean in terms of water, right? The groundwater that is used and is pumped for the lithium extraction is water that is also used for drinking and as I mentioned is the water that supports the Vegas, the high-altitude wetlands that many of the ecosystems depend on that. And one indicator will be to do a balance of how much water goes to the aquifer per year or in wet seasons or dry seasons, and how much water is extracted. 

18:16 – 18:36 

Laura: That balance of extraction versus recharge, I think, is important because we don’t know actually how long it took for those aquifers to fill up and how much that the amount of water that is pumped and what that means in terms of the reductions of groundwater levels. So that is one indicator that I think is key for to include. 

18:37 – 18:50 

Rajesh: So meaning that once you have that kind of indicator and a certain number of data, you would go back, match it with the indigenous communities and they were more or less correlate saying during this time it went low. During this time there was scarcity. Is that how it would work? 

18:51 – 19:23 

Laura: We could connect with indigenous communities and work with them to monitor groundwater levels because I think they’re the ones there and they could very well do that. In addition, by having this information and being able to continue collecting information, we could potentially model these wetlands and the interactions between surface and groundwater and climate [change]. And what that means in terms of once we’re able to simulate and represent the watershed of the wetlands and we can then project estimates for the future. 

19:24 – 19:55 

Laura: We can project and say, based on the climate, what this means in the coming years. So what I’m imagining is that this can be something that the communities could have and could maintain in terms of the data and information, but also it’s something that needs to be considered in decision-making and in how the permits and the plans for extraction of lithium in the regions need to consider that information as well. 

19:56 – 20:12 

Rajesh: Excellent. And that does bring us to the policy question. Because part of the reason we’re doing this podcast is to also look at how actionable policy can be framed in order to uphold local justice. What are your thoughts on, for example, actionable policy-oriented messages that can help uphold local justice in green energy efforts? 

20:13 – 20:39 

Laura: In connection with our conversation on the data and indicators is aligning a bit of this chaos, right, the global sustainability goals with the local level. Sustainable practices that disconnect needs to be bridged. Connecting with the [SDG] indicators that are relevant based on the perceptions of the indigenous communities with SDG. 

20:40 – 20:59 

Laura: That is also a challenge in terms of SDG and scale. Particularly the energy transition, I think we need to bridge those scales. The indigenous communities in particular in these regions of the salt lands are key players in ensuring the local sustainability that has been there for thousands of years. 

21:00 – 21:20 

Laura: So we need to include those voices and include them in the analysis of the indicators and have them inform those indicators and connecting them with SDGs at the national level. But also in connection with the global processes that are happening as part of the energy transition. 

21:21 – 21:45 

Laura: So I guess one of the main things that the research is trying to address is whether the sustainable practices at the local level and they have to be holistic and inclusive that can also connect with the global efforts to mitigate climate change. This interconnectedness, I think, is key to ensure environmental justice and a just energy transition that is responsible for that. 

21:46 – 22:00 

Rajesh: Excellent, Laura. This is quite a substantial challenge because you’re talking of lithium practices becoming just, equitable and environmentally sustainable. But we’re also trying to ensure that local knowledge and perspectives, especially of women, are listened to and taken up. 

22:01 – 22:10 

Rajesh: We would like to wrap up here, Laura, but we have maybe last opportunity for you if you have anything that you think you have missed, you can add here. 

22:11 – 22:45 

Laura: One final message that something that I keep hearing with stakeholders and local actors in Argentina or in South America particularly is also connected to this miscommunication or disconnects between scales. We think of the energy transition to substitute all cars with electric cars in the rich countries or the high-income countries. If we want to do that, that would have serious implications for the ecosystems and environments where these critical minerals are coming from. 

22:46 – 23:12 

Laura: So one of the messages that I keep hearing from local stakeholders is why there’s no changes that are suggested in high-income countries in terms of using more public transportation, changing their lifestyle, changing some of the norms in terms of the way that we transport ourselves, particularly living in California. And that is something that is very evident, right? 

23:13 – 23:28 

Laura: People are just driving and buying more electric cars and there’s a market for that. There’s a big promotion of that as a solution to climate change. And I think as a global community, we need to make some compromises on that. 

23:29 – 23:45 

Rajesh: That’s an excellent message to end this episode, Laura. Thank you so much. Thank you for your insights on upholding local justice and green energy using your experiences working on lithium mining impacts on environment and how to integrate indigenous knowledge. 

23:46 – 23:56 

Laura: Thank you so much. It’s pleasure to be here with you and thank you for the time and for allowing me to share about the work my colleagues and I did on this fascinating topic. 

23:57 – 24:06 

Rajesh: And that’s a wrap for our episode. Thank you so much for tuning in and spending your time with us. We hope you found value, inspiration and also new perspectives. 

24:07 – 24:37 

Power in Balance: Conversations on Sustainability and Justice. For more information, visit our website www.sei.org